Sunday, April 15, 2007

Reform or Revolt: The Mass of Pope Paul VI

Here is a really good video (sent to me by a friend) on the liturgical revolution and the Mass of Pope Paul VI. It is a fair and honest comparison of the Tridentine Mass with the Novus Ordo, and goes back in history to the root of the revolt, and explains how it all started with the Reformation and culminated in the Second Vatican Council. Here is the link to part two. Each video is about 45 minutes long, and well worth watching.


marilena said...

there was no need to change the Mass at all. that church that was built in 67 looks empty. no statues, no stations of the cross, hardly anything! i found it sad that a table that is supposed to be an altar was rolled in in front of a beautiful high altar! how sad!
the tlm is old and very beautiful.
the high altar is lovely, the ones at the no are just plain looking.
i just don't get why paul vi had to change the mass. its sad. it really is.

Lynne said...

I had seen this (and its companion) video on another blog. While it is very good, it is depressing because it showed that the 'reform' (destruction) of the TLM began a long time ago. We can't just blame it on aging hippie types from the 60's.

paramedicgirl said...

Lynne, I was a little surprised at that, too, - how the author dates the liturgical revolution back to the reformation. It's a well done video, IMO

318@NICE said...

What has disappointed me, is that I used to be a traditional Lutheran. And even in the most conservative Novus Ordo Churches, the Mass is the same as a Lutheran Mass.
As a matter of fact, about 4 months ago, I attended a Novus Ordo Mass at Queen of Apostles in Belmont, NC. The "Service" book that was used for the Mass, had almost the same exact Mass that the Lutheran Service book has in it. So, I knew it by heart.
But here's the thing, it seems that the Novus Ordo Mass is nothing more than a Lutheran Mass.
Is that right?
I have a friend who is a member of a Novus Ordo Parish in California and he told me once that it seems that in Vatican II, Martin Luther finally won, he finally got what he wanted.


paramedicgirl said...

You know Dave, many of the traditional Catholics have argued that point on Catholic Answers Forums before, (that the NO is a mirror image of the Lutheran Service) and we invariably get this response from the NO Catholics: That the Lutherans have copied the New Mass.

I wonder if they truly believe that.

Michael Leggett said...

In the TLM, there's only the reading of The Epistle(New Testament) & Gospel:

It's in the Lutheran Tradition that we hear an Old Testament Reading & a(Seemingly) Disjointed Epistle Reading;

It's apparent that the NO Catholics NEVER attended a TLM.

marilena said...

not true. and your also wrong about the TLM priests not reading form the old testament. you've never been to an SSPX chapel? i don't know about the other TLM's as i don't go there. but at our TLM in the SSPX chapel the priest when he gives his homily reads from the old testament. if this is what your referring to? and my sister has attended a TLM and she goes regularly to the NO as that is the only church they have in her area. perhaps you should consider going to a TLM? you don't have to go to an SSPX chapel, as there are other TLM Masses out there.

Ditch Doc said...

Hello from Fort Nelson

I just found your blog today, and I like most of what I've read so far. I'm another Catholic Canadian paramedic, so it was neat to find you.

While I agree that bits of the NO could be revisited, this post stream has me wondering three things:

1. Do you recognize the validity of the Novus Ordo?

2. If yes, how do you reconcile that with the idea that it's inherently flawed?

3. If no, how does that not mean that the gates of hell have prevailed against the Church?

By the way, I think you'll like this guy's blog:
(Catholic doctor from Ontario who explains all kinds of Church teachings on life issues.)

paramedicgirl said...

Hi there, Ditch Doc - sweet name, I like that! Yes, I do believe the Novus Ordo is a valid Mass - I attend one because that's all I have here where I live. I have started driving to Calgary once a month, though, to attend the FSSP Tridentine Mass. There is nothing like the Mass of the Ages. I have fallen in love with it, and the NO seems like an empty shell of the real thing, devoid of the reverence, sacredness and beauty that the TLm inspires one to.

Your second question - I believe the NO is flawed because of the misinterpretations of the people with VII. It never called for many of the things that have been introduced, and there is such a thing as a reverent, holy, NO Mass. I was at one in Seattle when I went to the Father Corapi retreat this February.

Your third question - No, the gates of hell will never prevail against the church. We are in a period of heresy, and that is entrenched in history, with the Arian heresy, the Manchurian heresy, etc. The Church will rise above and will prevail.

God bless

Brian said...

I love you guys. Please, PLEASE, prayerfully consider what you are doing in this blog. I have no love for many of the so-called 'reforms' of Vatican II, but this blog seems to do little more than cultivate public dissention from the Church. You aren't schismatic, you are troubled. PLEASE be careful because you really appear schismatic. I have many friends who are latin massers and I see it in them - they start to see the Church as 'us-them.' They say things -publicly - like, "[The novus ordo] is not the mass of the saints" or "I don't want my kids to think it's okay to receive in the hand." This is just breeding contempt, it's historically inaccurate, and plain WAY unhealthy. This is like the Avignon papacy - no one wins. You have to change things from within the fold. Whatever your thoughts about the Pope or the 'novus ordo' mass, what GOOD are you doing really with this blog or for the bringing people into the body of Christ? God have mercy on me.

paramedicgirl said...

Brian, the video presented in this post is actually a fair and honest comparison of the TLM with the NO. It does not disparage the NO or the Second Vatican Council. Rather, it goes back in history to the root of the Reformation, and reveals that part of history as the beginning of the changes in the Mass.

If you actually have taken the time to read this blog, you will see that I speak very highly of our beloved Pope, and that I simply prefer the TLM to the NO. There are places on this blog where I say a reverent NO is good to find. Nowhere do I condemn the NO. What I disapprove of are are the liberals and innovators who have turned it into a travesty.