Friday, June 22, 2007

Every Church should have one

27 comments:

Feathered Friends said...

that is taken right from my church. glad you posted that!

Angela Messenger said...

I wear slacks and they more than meet the norm of Christian modesty. I do not agree that wearing them is evidence that I do not love Our Lord.

Feathered Friends said...

do you go to a Tridentine Latin Mass?
You could not wear them at our church. slacks are typical for a NO but not an SSPX chapel. but then again, not everyone attends an SSPX chapel either.

Karin said...

Let me add y 2cents...
not all slacks/trousers are the devils spawn. I wear slacks/trousers that are atually very tasteful and do not give "camel toe" or crawl up my buttocks..the pants I wear to mass are similar to the ones here...

http://mysite.verizon.net/kennden/3-6-06_02_065.jpg

Feathered Friends said...

i agree that certain slacks are quite lovely, but when you come to an SSPX chapel, they are not allowed. i believe firmly in modest dress. absolutely, but i do not believe slacks are appropriate for Mass. this is really a hot issue for certain people. iam modest for sure, but if people outside Mass want to wear classy slacks, that is up to them.

Angela Messenger said...

Dress or no dress I don't think I would go to an SSPX Mass.

paramedicgirl said...

Angela, I took that photo yesterday at my brother's funeral Mass. He was an SSPX Catholic, and the whole family attended, even those who are anti-Catholic and Protestants. All the women dressed modestly and wore head coverings, which really surprised me, because a few in my family are very anti-Catholic. However, they did it to honour my brother, because it would have meant a lot to him to know that they respected the dress code of his church.

As for pants in Church, I don't think they are appropriate, after all, we are meeting the King of Heaven, and should dress our very best for that glorious event.

Feathered Friends said...

amen. well said. if one cannot dress properly to respect our Lord, then maybe one ought not to go.

Anonymous said...

PMGirl - I am not going to embroil myself in an online debate about SSPX and pants with you on your blog especially since you are in mourning. I may address it on my own blog and you may choose to read it - or not.

Angela Messenger

paramedicgirl said...

Angela, my opinions of suitable dress for Mass have long been exactly what this photo of the SSPX dress requirements show. I'm not an adherent of the SSPX, but I do appreciate their respect for modesty. Would you wear pants if you were scheduled to meet with the most important Royalty on earth? I wouldn't. I believe we owe our best to God, and I'm happy to dress appropriately.

However, each to their own. This is just my own opinion, and I respect that you may not share it with me.

StarbucksMom said...

I too, will wear pants (or slacks) to the Tridentine Mass. Many women do. I do not attend the SSPX however.
Jesus wore dresses, for goodness sakes, and you don't see men at Mass (other than Father) wearing them. Perhaps it is the men who are dressed inappropriately.

The rest of the sign seems completely appropriate, with the exception of excluding what is appropriate dress for men. I have seen men at the Tridentine in jeans. Is that appropriate? What about polos? No tie?

Pax
Danielle

StarbucksMom said...

Oh, and I also completely agree that every Church should have a sign, especially one as beautifully produced as that one is.

Feisty Muse said...

I personally choose to wear skirts/dresses to Mass but agree that it is a personal decision I cannot make for others.
That said, I have seen many women at my parish wearing slacks that were MUCH more modestly dressed than many of the young women wearing skirts!
Shouldn't modesty be the point, regardless of how it is achieved?
I know of a woman who regularly attends a nearby TLM community (regular as in daily) has a physical condition which resulted in one of her legs being much shorter than the other (she even brings a book to kneel on with one knee, the difference is that drastic). It is impossible for her to wear a skirt/dress and have it look nice because of this (can hem pant legs individually but in a skirt there isn't that option). Women in her parish have acted quite uncharitable toward her because she wears pants but I have seen her and she dresses quite modestly (covers her hair as well).
I would much rather see a woman wearing slacks and modestly dressed, than a skirt that is even a smidgen too short.
Respectfully,
The Feisty Muse

P.S. It is also quite easy for women, especially, to 'forget' that when kneeling to receive the Blessed Sacrament, Father standing to distribute it, has a "birds' eye view" straight down many blouses! I say, "Wear modest slacks just so long as NO cleavage shows."

K said...

That. Is. Awesome.

(Although, I don't see anything wrong with modest "slacks", I do think there is something nice about going out of one's way to be a little more dressed up than usual when attending Mass. If a woman likes slacks and usually wears them, putting on a skirt for Mass is a nice sacrifice to make.)

BTW, Jesus didn't "wear dresses, for goodness sake". He wore a TUNIC which was normal clothing for the time. Pants had not been invented in those ancient times. Any anyway many ancient cultures wore clothing that was tunic-like. Think of the Japanese kimono, for example (worn by men and women both) and the Korean honbok. And the Chinese traditional garb (I forget the name). And African clothing. All these outfits are tunic-like in design. These types of clothing were simply modest for both genders. Yes, men need to be modest, too. Anyone who has seen a guy walking around in public in bicycle shorts or a Speedo knows why this is true.

Feathered Friends said...

Starbucksmom,

2000 years ago, jeans were not invented. At the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. it is not respectful to our Lord to wear jeans to Mass. it is utterly disrespectful to our Lord to wear immodest clothing. it could open up men to temptation and it is scandalous to wear immodest clothing to the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. SSPX Mass or not, it is shameful to wear immodest clothing to Mass. If your going to any Mass, be it a TLM or not, please, wear modest clothing. That way, your showing your respect for our Lord and His house.

Feisty Muse said...

K said : "Anyone who has seen a guy walking around in public in bicycle shorts or a Speedo knows why this is true."
and, I might add: wishes they didn't!

paramedicgirl said...

I too, have noticed that some women wear slacks to the TLM. I was rather surprised by that, actually, and I also noticed that not all women cover their heads at the TLM. Cardinal Arinze says that dress codes are up to the individual parish priest, so whatever dress code is posted must be respected. The problem is, and this is the point of the post, is that most churches DON'T have a dress code.

When you see a sign such as the one in the photo, you would not wear pants to their Mass, as it would be disrespectful.

My personal preference is to wear a dress to any Mass, be it TLM, NO or SSPX (which I only to go to for family obligations)

StarbucksMom said...

my jesus wore a dress comment, was an attempt at humor. my point is, pants are normal clothing for women. just my 2 cen

StarbucksMom said...

feathered friends,
I never disagreed that one should dress modestly. I believe in it and I do dress modestly.
I disagree that skirts are required to be modest.

Pax.
Danielle

Simon-Peter Vickers-Buckley said...

Can I wear a kilt?

Can I wear jeans if they are hand made, cost $500, and are *only* worn for Mass, Confession and Adoration? Are they the best I have got? Are they sacred (set aside for God?)

What about the guy who wears a $150 off the peg suit that he uses for work, is wearing it sometimes when he pops into the grocery store? Say anything to him?

What about the guy who has a suit that he only wears for mass, but, lets face it, it was cut for someeone else, and sheesh, where did he learn to tie a tie like that?

The guy with really nice brogues, but, he wears them for work and uses one of them quick fake polishing sponges?

The guy who wears black sneakers, just for mass, mink-oiled, trimmed, clean and always polished...s'right, he wears polished sneakers.

What's the RULE?

Don't get me wrong, wear a mantilla, the wife does, but recognize (those of you whose ancestors are form nothern europe) that the manitlla IS NOT traditional. Wear a hat. Or a wimple or a straight veil if you want to get right to it.

I also supsect many of you women have been reading too much Hammond.

Why don't you ask MEN (the irony) if their eyes are drawn up to your crotch...? LOL.

Trust me...you aren't all that.

Anonymous said...

when I am bicycle touring ,I don't haul dress clothes in my saddlebags.Should I skip Mass?Not visit Shrines?Hmmmm ...You chose to die with a sin stained soul because you couldn"t dress nicely ?Straight to Heaven you go for not upsetting those for whom appearance is everything and ignoring your God! ....

Feathered Friends said...

well, simon peter now we know where you look. you proved the point that men can be open to temptation and immodest dress can cause scandal. point proven. this really is not an issue to laugh at. or take as a joke. so many in the NO disrespect our Lord. At the TLM that is not SSPX women can uncover their head and wear slacks, but not at an SSPX. it is totally reverent and that is the way it should be. you wont find men drooling or gawking at women either. the Mass is about God not man. therefore we put our focus on Him not us.

Karin said...

I am sorry but how do you equate a woman wearing a dress with modesty?

paramedicgirl said...

I am sorry but how do you equate a woman wearing a dress with modesty?

There certainly are some immodest dresses out there, aren't there Karin! Modesty is the key for dressing appropriately for Church, and is a skirt or dress is immodest, then obviously it's not appropriate for Mass. Same with pants. If they are modest, then why not wear them? Unless of course, the Church's dress code, such as the one in the picture of this post, forbids it.

This post is about obedience as well as modesty, folks!

onionboy said...

Angela, my online friend, with respect, I think you miss the point here: "I wear slacks and they more than meet the norm of Christian modesty. I do not agree that wearing them is evidence that I do not love Our Lord."

I agree with you that you are dressed modestly. Certainly I've seen women wearing dresses that are not modest so a dress in an of itself does not win the day.

But what you are missing is the fact that while it is not sin to you to wear slacks it does cause your sisters who attend an SSPX mass to stumble. That you wouldn't attend an SSPX mass perhaps makes this a moot point but I call on the words of Saint Paul to the Corinthians when he tells them, rather forthrightly, that even though it is not sinful for them to do such and such if it causes their brethren to stumble they should refrain from doing such and such in public.

My "rights" play second fiddle to my brothers conscience. That's how I would understand this. I certianly don't want a mill stone around my neck :)

O ::thrive luminousmiseries || onionboy.ca

Simon-Peter Vickers-Buckley said...

No, not at ALL! It is women, one Colleen Hammond (who?) and her devotees who talk about this line-eye drwan to the the crotch issue. I was merely repeating this sublimated wishful thinking. Talk about who is the focus at Mass????

Good grief!

"if it causes their brethren to stumble"

Nope, that is pathetic. Absolutely pathetic. Pants causing some one to stumble. Scandlaizing them so their faith is undermined? That's no faith, it is a fraud. What's next, refusing to eat with sinners?Scripture is not a matter of private interpretation. This clothing issue, aside from the issue of modesty is a red-herring.

THutch04 said...

Ok, I usually do wear a skirt or a dress when I'm going to Mass (unless it's winter, in which case, with the cold I wear nice slacks), and I would have no problem only dressing that way if it were a dress code. However, how is it that pants on women cause some men to have impure thoughts? If it's just the way they look, then as other posters have said skirts and dresses can do the exact same thing (and as someone who works in retail, it can be VERY difficult to find modest dresses). But I LIKE to think that men are focusing on the Mass and not gawking at women who happen to be wearing tasteful, modest pants.